Hooked again
NEWS-TIMES
Published: Friday, April 3, 2009 3:05 PM EDT
The Coastal Conservation Association of North Carolina is up to its old tricks again.
Wednesday afternoon on the day it was introduced, CCA announced its support of House Bill 918, which seeks game fish status for spotted sea trout, speckled trout and red drum. If granted, this would make the commercial harvest or sale of these species illegal, meaning they could only be caught by hook and line.
Tossing a bone to commercial fishermen, Stephen Ammons, executive director of CCA North Carolina, said it “also supports, in some form, financial mitigation for lost income that will be experienced by commercial fishermen that would be affected by these changes. This short-term replacement of income should allow sufficient time to transition into other income producing activities,” he said.
He said CCA’s “goal is to assure the state’s valuable marine resources are managed to maintain healthy populations and sustainable stocks and to advocate for the interests of recreational fishermen of our state. The red drum and spotted sea trout, combined, represent about 1% of the total value of all the commercially sold fish in North Carolina. CCA-NC and other states have clearly recognized and acted upon the increased economic value of game fish status for these two species.”
Calling the CCA proposal “a terrible idea … for a number of reasons,” Sean McKeon, executive director of the N.C. Fisheries Association said, “We don’t manage fisheries from Raleigh any more since 1997 (when the N.C. Fisheries Reform Act was enacted), and he said Rep. Carolyn Justice (Pender and New Hanover counties) who introduced the bill should know that.
“This is a process,” he continued, “allowing public input,” and by this maneuver CCA is trying to subvert public input.
“These are public trust resources,” he continued, “owned by all North Carolinians.
“If this bill passes it essentially hands this resource over to a very elite group of rich white people that have boats. And the losers will be the consumers.
“In order for a very elite group of white rich people with boats to catch fish they want the rest of all North Carolinians to give up the resources they own.
“Restaurant people should be up in arms,” he said. “The spotted sea trout and speckled trout and red drum are important sources of protein people get in restaurants or from seafood dealers.
“Oh, and CCA fails to mention that the discard mortality rate, according to the N.C. Division of Marine Fisheries, are that more fish killed by hook and line than by any nets.
“And for several years, the rate of discard mortality of these species caught by hook and line, according to the division, was more than double,” he said.
“This is nothing more than a group of people who fish for fun taking away the livelihood of people who fish for a living. And it’s disgraceful.”
Agreeing that Rep. Justice’s bill favors one group over another, Louis Daniel, director of the N.C. Marine Fisheries, said the bill is “inconsistent with our charge and our mission” because “any time fishery bills are legislated our authority is undermined.” He added he could not support her bill.
When the Fisheries Reform Act was introduced, CCA, a national organization acting on the belief there aren’t enough fish in the water for fishermen, tried unsuccessfully to gut it.
Consumers who depend on seafood markets for seafood should take stock of Mr. McKeon’s warning. Otherwise, they won’t be eating local seafood in restaurants now advertising Carteret Catch, meaning they serve locally caught seafood. And consumers won’t be able to buy these particular species locally. Of course, one can always buy seafood from Indonesia.
Reader Comments
The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the view of carolinacoastonline.com.
Rec Angler wrote on Apr 3, 2009 5:26 PM:
" Again you show your single sided view of this issue. Ask the people who own hotels, restaurants, gas stations, tackle shops, real estate offices, drug stores and almost every other business person in Carteret County if they enjoy losing business from people right here in our own state. Millions of dollars are going to places where this type of legislation already exists in states from SC all the way to Texas. That is money that could be spent here and is not due to the simple fact that speckled trout and red drum should be listed as no sale in NC. You have quotes from McKeon but none from Ammons (other than those that were in the press release). That is irresponsible journalism at its finest. "
Flats Freak wrote on Apr 3, 2009 8:34 PM:
" Obviously, the writer of the article feels the exact same way the buffalo hunters did when they were shooting them by the thousands with absolutely no regard to what it was doing to the species. It is amazing how NC has to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century regarding responsible fisheries management. NC is the last state from Maine to Texas that allows destructive commercial gear in its shallow water estuaries. Indifference and apathy is what has given this fine state a black eye regarding the continued buffalo hunting of our fish stocks. Shame on them. "
BAD JOURNALISM wrote on Apr 3, 2009 9:23 PM:
" Time and again, you prove yourself to be one of the absolute worst newspapers I have ever laid eyes on. It makes me nauseous how one-sided and biased all of your articles are. You should be ashamed of yourselves as journalists. "
Sumbeach wrote on Apr 3, 2009 9:24 PM:
" I guess that I should watch the news more often. Obviously, they must have lowered the bar again to include me in the weathly elite class. Typical, when void of an intelligent, sustainable argument resort to class warfare and the race card. "
WHERE DO THE FISH GO wrote on Apr 3, 2009 9:28 PM:
" Here's am important fact for the News Times and M. Sean McKeon - where do alll those commercially caught red drum and speckled trout go? The fact is is that the vast majority of them do not get served in NC restaurants nor are they sold to NC citizens.....
....most of them are trucked to states like South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Louisiana and Texas. All those state not only have net bans, but most of them have already made speckled trout gamefish and banned their sale!!!! Why should the citizens of those statesget to enjoy our fish and, also, vastly superior fishing for the said species.
The combined catch of red drum and speckled trout are worth less than 1 million dollars to the NC economy (DMF stats). However, rec anglers spend over 2.0 BILLION dollars a year in NC????
Wonder where the fish are worth the most??? Hmmm.... "
Trout Underground wrote on Apr 3, 2009 11:26 PM:
" Oh please: “If this bill passes it essentially hands this resource over to a very elite group of rich white people that have boats."
Faux populism is not a good basis for managing a resource. Economically speaking, the species mentioned are far more valuable to the state's economy when protected; better fishing elsewhere means dollars go elsewhere.
Amusingly, the editorial argues that the species in question are an "important" source of protein, yet they represent less than 1% of the commercial catch.
It's not that complicated. "
DT wrote on Apr 4, 2009 7:28 AM:
" We could have skipped the part about - "In order for a very elite group of white rich people with boats to catch fish they want the rest of all North Carolinians to give up the resources they own"
The idea of limits, restrictions and such should stand on its own merits; i.e. what happens to the fisheries if things remain the same? Do the fish disappear? Do the commercial people go out of business if this in enacted? Your editorial in my opinion did not clearly define those merits.
Also there should be a respect shown for the commercial guys who do a lot of hard work to provide for their families. I by the way am one of those guys with a boat who enjoy fishing but not at the expense of someone’s income. "
Capt Seth wrote on Apr 4, 2009 9:10 AM:
" I have to admit that I felt challenged by this article's extremeist views that recreational anglers and CCA are out to get commercial fishermen and seafood consumers, that is simply not true. I make my living on the water every day as a full time licensed charter fishermen and while I am caucasion I am certainly not rich! I can assure your readers as someone who also makes their living on the water I find myself unrepresented by the NCDMF as I watch whole year classes of red drum wiped out by flounder nets and dead discards left behind that don't benefit either user group. Don't even get me started on the numbers of dead and entangled sea turtles I witness each year expired in commercial flounder gill nets. Beleive me ladies and gentlemen this is purely the tip of the iceburg.
If the author of this piece would have spoken to CCA NC he would have been able to find relevant information without the one sided views of Sean McKeon who is a lobbyist for commercial fishing interests. Since the author of this artilce didn't do his/her work I'll help you the reader with some facts.
Here are the facts; according to the NCDMF reports: Currently red drum are listed as "recovering".
1) "the DMF has no information about hook and line red drum fishermen, or the issues that they find most important, though presumably regulations would be important to them as well." section 8.3.1 Recreational Fishery excerpt from the NCDMF Red Drum FMP
2) Under the research and data needs for Red Drum DMF needs information regarding; "commercial discard estimates, information on the size and distribution of recreational releases...and assessment of adult stocks"
3) Commercial Fishermen in NC have consistently overfished the quota of red drum, (250,000lbs) on an annual basis in 1989 (274,356 lbs.), 1998 (294,366 lbs.), 1999 (372,942 lbs.), 2000 (270,953 lbs.) According to the DMF 2008 though no numbers have been released yet...
4) 97.4 % of Red Drum sold Commercially are from NC~ ASMFC Stock assessment
5) "Unlike the commercial landings, North Carolina does not dominate harvest of red drum in the recreational fishery along the Atlantic coast (Table 5). North Carolina landings only accounted for 14% of the recreational harvest by weight for the Atlantic Coast from 1999 to 2005." NCDMF Red Drum FMP pg.28 section 7.2
6) Economic impact of the commercial red drum fishery in North Carolina, 2000—2005. DMF Trip Ticket Program, IMPLAN. Red Drum FMP pg. 37 Table 10
Year
Ex-Vessel Value
Fishermen (w/crew)
Total Statewide Impact
Additional JobsCreated
2000
$294,871
1234
$491,728
2.5
2001
$170,548
965
$284,333
1.5
2002
$89,192
964
$148,857
0.8
2003
$105,671
875
$175,617
0.9
2004
$69,753
664
$122,583
0.5
2005
$173,040
904
$307,347
1.3
7) Recreational Fishing in NC 2006 Survey by NOAA~
"In the report you'll see that we estimate marine anglers fishing in North Carolina in 2006 spent a total of $2.03 billion (the 5th highest total across the 23 coastal states). The $2.03 billion in expenditures generated $2.5 billion in total sales to businesses located in North Carolina, provided $780.8 million in personal income to workers in North Carolina, and supported 23,782 jobs in the state." http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st5/publication/marine_angler.html
8) Table 13 shows the demographic characteristics of the red drum-reporting fishermen surveyed by the Socioeconomic Program over the past five years.
Nearly all were white males, with an average age of 50 and over 27 years of commercial fishing experience. Two thirds of them had a high school diploma and 23% had at least some college education. Half had $30,000 or less in household income when surveyed, with 24% bringing in $50,000 or more. Only 9% had less than $15,000 in annual household income (Table 13).2
Fishing accounted for 70% of the household income from these fishermen, and 48% reported that fishing was their sole source of income. They are least likely to fish December through April, which is the slowest time of the year for most fishermen. They own an average of 1.7 registered commercial fishing vessels. Red Drum FMP Pg. 38
I hope this fact check has been insightful to your readers, I feel certain they don't want to have the wool pulled over their eyes. "
Jordan Creek Speck wrote on Apr 4, 2009 11:35 AM:
" Anglers have petitioned the DMF and the MFC repeatedly for protective rules for our prized game fish without any response. Our appointed officials continue to let our valuable fisheries decline the in face of irrefutable evidence supported by history that fish stocks are depleted.
Of the 40 fish species in commercial trade in NC, not a single one is designated as a "game fish." All our inland fish are protected as "game fish" by the WRC and they all are thriving. Public trust resources belong to us all for sure, but no one expects to have a white-tailed deer, wood duck, or large mouthed bass available at the supermarket.
Let's take the price off the heads of red drum (our state fish by the way) and speckled trout and manage them for their highest and best use for everyone - NC's primier game fish. "
glen montgomery wrote on Apr 4, 2009 12:43 PM:
" I have never seen so much bs in my life as some of you have written. Some of your data are true but not accurate. Red drum are recovering quite nicely in NC and are at or very near the levels that the DMF is targeting., Don't believe me then call some authority over at the DMF and ask them. Or better yet ask the head jerk in the CCA. Also ask them how many time the NC commercial fisheremen have exceeded their red drum quota in the past 10 years. One time is the correct answer. I'm out of here for now cause it would take all day to correct some of the BS data that I just got thru reading from you bunch. have a good day. "
glen montgomery wrote on Apr 4, 2009 2:44 PM:
" So you guys prefer for commercials to simply throw back the dead or dying reds that they catch as bycatch instead of being able to make a few dollars off the few that they are allowed to catch. I realize that 15 or 20 bucks means very little to some of you croc wearin 100 dollar fishing shirts types but 15 or 20 dollars can be very useful to many of our local commercial guys. You sure have picked a good time to kick our hard working fishermen in the privates. I honestly do not know how some of you can look at yourself in the mirror. "
capefear wrote on Apr 4, 2009 4:52 PM:
" Actually Mr. Montgomery,
You might want to check your own 'facts" as well. Commercial fishermen exceeded their highly inflated and unscientific "quota" 3 years running. In 1998, 1999 & 2000. And if the season had not been "split" recently, the Wanchese boys would have wacked it again, In fact, they did wack it enough to have the seaon closed and now commercials are having to "make up" their overages.
And to the editor of this rag. Journalism is supposed to be "fair and balanced". Investigation of the facts is always nice before you print. And honesty in reporting is considered a virtue as well. You folks should probably take a "smoke break" and talk about it. "
Native wrote on Apr 4, 2009 5:06 PM:
" I FULLY AGREE with everything said...
CCA's ONLY agenda has been to completely do away with ALL COMMERCIAL FISHING for the benefit of those who SUPPORT THEM with their $$$$..
Why do those who sport fish THINK they should OWN ALL THE FISH?? Have CCAers ever considered that fresh seafood taste as good in the MOUNTAINS as it does to those fortunate enough to live on the coast???
WHY should hook and line "sports" be given ALL OF ANY SPECIES just to KILL for THEIR ENJOYMENT???
The ONLY BANNING that is NEEDED is the complete BANNING OF CCA!!!!
i AM NOT A COMMERCIAL...I AM A HOOK AND LINE SPECKLED TROUT FISHERMEN....
Folks who suppoort CCA with their $$ need to realize that CCA's hidden agenda is to CONTROL ALL SALT FISHING FOR THIER BENEFIT!!! "
glen montgomery wrote on Apr 4, 2009 9:08 PM:
" Here are the facts so now tell us why red drum are in serious trouble in NC. From the recent RED DRUM Management Plan
Stock Status
The current stock status of red drum in North Carolina waters indicates that the stock is currently not undergoing overfishing. More restrictive management measures in place as a result of the 2001 North Carolina Red Drum FMP have effectively reduced fishing mortality. The primary benchmarks in determining the stock status, spawning potential ratio (SPR) and escapement are currently at or near target levels. It is critical to note that reaching the target is only the first step in maintaining this fishery. In order for the red drum stock to be considered healthy and viable, the 40% SPR target must be maintained continuously over time. "
Bryan Stange wrote on Apr 5, 2009 9:33 AM:
" I hope this was in the opinion section because there is nothing objective about it. I thought the purpose of newspapers was to present the facts and let the people decide for themselves. "
tired of the gestapo wrote on Apr 5, 2009 10:21 AM:
" I see the commercial gestapo is out demagoguing the facts again. What next guys? Out bashing windows and flattening tires of anyone with a CCA sticker in their window? That's been done before with regularity down east to intimidate people who wish to preserve what fishery we have left. Doesn't surprise me to see union gestapo tactics when they can't bully their way without a clear line of logic or facts to back them up.
Just more of the same. They think they should be the only ones on the water, and that they should be allowed to catch the last fish in NC, and that if you want fish, you should be forced to buy it from them. "
Frank wrote on Apr 5, 2009 5:53 PM:
" Amen on the Commercial Gestapo - the reason the NCFA lobbyist (Sean McKenon - the news times conveniently left out that fact) is so big on public input. If anyone has ever been to an MFC meeting you'll quickly find all the commercial thugs there in numbers - lots of glares, comments and other such threatening remarks are exchanged with anyone not representing their interestes.
I even think the NCFA tells the commercial fishermen how act and how to threaten. Its amazing how so many uneducated commercial fishermen know exactly how to communicate threats without in any way incriminating themselves.
At DMF and MFC meetings, if you report this behavior to marine patrol...they like to use the phrase "we deal in fish, not people."
Commercial fishing is a dead industry. Period. Particularly shallow water gill netting. The unfortunate fact is that there are a lot of local folks - like the apparent moronic writer of this piece -who for some reason think that commercial fishing benefits the community????
Nope - that would be tourism. Gamefish and net bans make for great fishing and better tourism. "
FlyFishMag wrote on Apr 5, 2009 11:00 PM:
" Think about the impact on the econcomy if this fishery gets depleted. We have the opportunity to turn NC into one of the best trout / redfish fisheries in the country. Gamefish status recognizes this and manages the resource in such a way as to protect it. Anything else is short sighted. "
glen montgomery wrote on Apr 6, 2009 2:42 PM:
" Wonder why I am one of the very few that is brave enough to show their name on their comments. I would be ashame to let my friends know that I was more concerned about having a wiggle at the end of my pole than I was with people's livlihood too. As I posted earlier, red drum are doing quite well in NC without having to make them gamefish and if you take a minute to read the latest report from the DMF on this matter then one would conclude that perhaps the sky is not falling as the CCA would have us believe. I have always said that since fishery management in NC is starting to show promise that the CCA and its followers are in a panic mode since they are slowly losing their case for the banning of commercial fishermen all together in NC waters. Their motto ought to be. If you cant catch your on fish with a rod and reel then let them have imported seafood to eat. "
Bill wrote on Apr 6, 2009 5:23 PM:
" Glen - Most folks have posted their name and organization on here.
What I find incredible is that commercial fishermen, much like yourself obviously, are the first to yell and scream about the DMF, NMFS and every other gov't organization that regulates you. I hear nothing but complaints about how the gov't is putting commercial fishermen out of business. They regulate you to death. BLAH BLAH BLAH.
But in a circumstance like this, you're the first to run to the DMF and exclaim how their studies prove that this step is unnecessary! Look look look - the DMF says these fish stocks are healthy and viable! The DMF knows everything! Their science is wise....unless it might make it less possible for me to sell more fish.
Can't have it both ways, that's for sure.
Pretty obvious you want to keep going until the last speckled trout is gone. "
glen montgomery wrote on Apr 6, 2009 10:50 PM:
" Went back and re-read all my comments and still not able to see how its obvious to you that I want the speckle trout to disappear. Its obvious that most of you want all of them for yourselves and do not care about the commercial and their families or people that like to eat fresh seafood on occassion but are unable to fish and catch their own. Nothing new about that when it comes to most (not all) of the CCA types though. "
Mike Allen wrote on Apr 7, 2009 3:07 PM:
" Someone should call the Sheriffs Dept. There has been a murder here. The murder of all of the commercial fishermen. Maybe now the tourist can take over everything. To all of you in favor of completely doing away with the commercial fishing industry please tell me what do you expect these people to do for a living? There is NO industry in Carteret County save for the tourist industry. Do you expect them to sell their homes, pack up, and leave all that they have known? I mean really what if you woke up tomorrow and someone said sorry Bill you can't do this job or any like it anymore. I see both sides of the argument. There is a need for regulation and protection but there is no need in over regulation that threatens to destroy a livelihood. Just stop and put yourself in another persons boots for a bit. It just may change your perspective. "
Ronald wrote on Apr 7, 2009 3:08 PM:
" BAD JOURNALISM..HERES A POINTER FOR YOU..IF YOU HATE THE CCNT SO BAD THEN MAYBE YOU SHOULD KEEP YOUR FAT NOSE OUT OF IT. "
Jim Parsons wrote on Apr 7, 2009 5:04 PM:
" Seam McKeon’s “editorial” comments are self serving to say the least. His comment
“We don’t manage fisheries from Raleigh any more” is exactly right. Since the 1997 enactment, the fisheries resources have been controlled by N C Fisheries Association, a trade organization of commercial fish sellers with the help of The Division of Marine Fisheries and Marc Basnite, N C Senator from Dare County. It’s a little like putting the foxes in the hen house.
The NC Fisheries Association is not interested in public input; only in controlling the resource, with good reason. They make money and the more they exploit the resource the more money they make. They ruined the Gray Trout fishery and now, Spotted Sea Trout and the Red Drum are in peril.
Sean McKeon continually quotes the N C Division of Marine Fisheries which is closely aligned with the fishing trade organization. (His employer!) How convenient but not reliable trust worthy quotes
Every state from here to Texas has taken dramatic steps to protect the “Specs and Reds”. So, why are Fish houses fighting this bill so hard? The answer, it means a loss of income for a very small elite group of people and it’s not the commercial fishermen. (They will be compensated according to the bill). It’s the Fish Houses, McKeon’s employers, which will lose the revenue from North Carolina’s resource being exploited and shipped out of state. Now, tell me about the “very small, elite group of white people with boats” that will benefit from this bill. Now, tell me about who will benefit from its defeat. Shame on you Sean Mckeon, for making such a biased untrue statement.
Let’s talk about the numbers and what is really best for North Carolina. The recreational fishing industry brings to the state over 2.5 billion dollars each year and supports over 27000 jobs. This is done through bait sales, boats, motors, rods, reels, tackle, motels, restaurants, and the list goes on. The commercial fish houses by their count are bringing to the economy less than one million dollars. I ask again, WHY are they fighting this bill so hard? Could it be that their reporting numbers are inaccurate as to what they are buying and shipping of these two fish?
Is it in North Carolina’s best interest (this includes all of the citizens which really do own the resource) to grow the recreational fishing industry or to continue to allow the Fish Houses to control our Specs & Reds. This is a “no brainer”. The recreational value far out exceeds the commercial food value of the resource.
First and foremost, our resource must be preserved and nurtured. Bill H-918 specifies a reduction in catch limits of 40% by the recreational fishermen. When has their ever been a commercial fish house that has said we must preserve the resource, bring us less catch? The answer, of course, is never! Their cry is always, “raise our limits” so we can catch more. N C Division of Marine Fisheries has been most accommodating.
Yes, Mr. Louis Daniel, this Bill H-918 would undermine the Division of Marine Fisheries authority, and I say halleluiah! "
fred wrote on Apr 7, 2009 5:36 PM:
" It's so funny how any regulations are viewed as "destroying commercial fishing" or "murdering commercial fishing." It's ridiculous! Speckled trout and red drum are an after thought! There is no money in catching these fish accept for just a small group of fishermen. These regulations would have no impact on the industry other than force commercial fishermen to fish for other species in more sustainable ways.
I dont think anyone wants commercial fishermen to go away! I sure dont! It would be easier if species, like red drum and speckled trout, would be seen as greater assets for tourism than $10 extra dollars for a part-time gill netter.
I also agree, this newspaper is terrible and its quality of journalism is putrid. It's sad to think this represents our local community. This whole "if you don like it get your fat nose out of it" is simply ignorant. You heard me - IGNORANT. Apparently Ronald went to East with all the other simpletons. "
Ronald wrote on Apr 8, 2009 4:55 AM:
" HEY FRED, YOU ARE THE MOST IGNORANT ONE ON THIS EDITORIAL. WHY DONT YOU GO DOWN EAST TO ONE OF THE LOCAL HARBORS WHERE THE REAL FISHERMEN ARE AND START YOUR RANT ABOUT THE DOWN EAST SIMPLETONS. I AM FROM DOWN EAST AND PROUD OF IT...YOU HEARD ME PROUD OF IT. I HAVE SPENT ALL MY LIFE EARNING AND PROVIDING FOR MY FAMILY COMMERCIAL FISHING. I FOR ONE WAS NOT BORN WITH A SILVER SPOON IN MY MOUTH NOR DID MY PARENTS GIVE EVERYTHING TO ME ON A SILVER PLATTER. BOTTOM LINE, I DO NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH RECREATIONAL FISHERMEN ENJOYING THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES. HOWEVER, I CAN NOT STOMACH THE RECREATIONAL FISHERMEN TALKING SMACK ABOUT THE COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN. I CAN NOT SPEAK ABOUT ALL THE FEELINGS OF OTHER COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN ABOUT THEIR VIEWS AMONGST THE REC FISHERMEN. "
IFlipOut wrote on Apr 8, 2009 8:08 AM:
" if I am correct,this is suppose to be a forum that allows people of the community to express their opinions.
I just wanted to say that I think it unnecessary to engage in personal attacks.Fred,you should be ashamed. "
Carl J. wrote on Apr 8, 2009 9:53 AM:
" IFlipOut, don't blame Fred. The CNT's on-line content editor is the one responsible for everything that gets posted here. It's seems that the only comments that get censored are those from a certain few posters.
"...name calling and personal attacks are not acceptable in this forum." "
Clammerhead wrote on Apr 8, 2009 11:19 AM:
" This letter is in response to the article on the Game Fish status bill in the CCNT.
There has been comment recently that some people hide their identity behind fake names. Clammerhead is a name given to me many years ago by a friend and I am not by any means hiding with a name like Clammerhead. My knowledge of fishing comes from over 40 years of working in and around the water, not 3 weekends a year or a sports fishing magazine. I am now a part time commercial fishermen, and own a business that receives income from recreational fishermen as well. If you feel need to know more you can go to www.theclammerheadgroup.com, www.thepollutedloon.com or Google me.
The methods of gathering, interpretation, and manipulation of data being used is a joke, and should be a crime if it is not already. This out-dated and sometimes false information is being used by special interest groups and agencies to further their own cause. The list goes from the White House to the Lighthouse.( To the Editor's defense, most of them are supported and manned by more rich white people than any other demographic group.) Participant, funding, and revenue numbers lean heavily in favor of recreational fishing. The recreational fishing industry will be quick to point that out. Let's look at what they are not pointing out.
A major part of the decline of some fish stocks can be linked directly to recreational fishing. The amount of recreational fishermen has grown at such a rate that the numbers are to great to accurately count. This puts more stress on certain species, such as the exact ones labeled in this bill. These species did not become this stressed until the boom of recreational fishing in the 90's and the more that participate the worse it gets. While at the same time there are continually less commercial catches of these species.
Recreational fishermen also have a higher ratio of fish being lost due to unattended nets. Commercial fishermen are under strict regulation for tending nets. They also view a wasted fish as wasted income, now and in the future.
Along with this comes the pollution from the boats, the people in them, and development to support the recreational industry. There is evidence of this in looking at everything from the color of the river, to the court battles and movements to stop this very pollution. The current status of North Carolina's coastal waters is at a dangerous level. More recreational fishermen will only increase the pollution.
There are many instances of recreational fishermen selling fish ( many of them illegal ) to crooked dealers,and their friends, or dis-regarding size and catch limits thus adding stress to these very fish.
As for the " one or two $10 fish " mentioned in the CCNT online post, those fish can often make the difference if a commercial fisherman can go to work the next day or not.
This is not a game to commercial fishermen. It is a job. By definition, recreational fishing is a game, plain and simple. It is a game being played, often at the expense of others. This bill will hurt commercial fishermen and help recreational fishermen. It is obvious who will suffer from it most. If recreational fishermen are so worried about these species, why don't they try to get themselves banned from catching them? Even if these fish are totally banned, and stocks grow, when the ban is lifted this bill will return these fish to the recreational fishermen first. If there are any commercial fishermen left, they will probably never get them back.
I have no problem with recreational fishermen enjoying their sport. I will help you build your house, point you to a good restaurant, give you tips on catching fish and protecting the environment, but it is time that the recreational fishing industry starts accepting accountability for the damage they have done to fish stocks and the environment. Don't tell us it is all the commercial fisherman's fault. Quit trying to justify yourself with numbers that don't work. Stop making personal attacks on our character and destroying our gear. Refuse to be fooled by mis-leading numbers and special interest groups that use you to help their selves. Quit telling us we are ignorant and don't understand what we have been witnessing our whole lives. Ask yourself if playing a game worth taking someones job away, or destroying the environment. If you think it is, you don't deserve to fish.
The bottom line here is , the commercial fisherman are getting blamed and punished for something that we have had a lesser part in again. It is being done for greed, privilege, and power. You might not like what I have written here,but it is the truth. I have been making a running offer for years that if someone proves me wrong I will apologize and be quiet until I get it right, but you will have to prove me wrong. So far, no one has. If someone feels they are up to it, please try. Something and/or someone is terribly wrong here and needs to be fixed. We need to each and everyone need to speak up and tell everyone involved this bill should not be passed.
David A. Cessna Sr. ( Clammerhead) "
Mike Allen wrote on Apr 8, 2009 11:31 AM:
" I agree with you Mr. Parsons on your point of creating jobs for the area and bringing the 2.5 billion dollars to the area but I poser this question to anyone here who can answer it. What do the people do who are employed by these businesses created the other 3 to 6 months of the year when recreational fishermen or tourist in general are not in the area? Do you think someone can live in this area on minimum wage? "
Bill wrote on Apr 9, 2009 1:08 AM:
" In response to Mike Allen - "what should commercial fishermen do in the 3-6 other months of the year"?
Who in the world says anything about banning commercial fishing?????? NO ONE. NO ONE EVER DOES. Red drum are an after-thought and speckled trout are a catch pursued by a very small number of strike netters.
I have some ideas - how about oyster leases, crabbing, clamming, scalloping, pound netting for flounder. Skimmer trawls for shrimp. Channel nets for shrimp. Heck, how about gigging for flounder?
Let me add that after the dingbatters from ohio go home in august...some of the only tourism we see from sept through nov. is from fishermen. I read somewhere that the albacore fly fishermen infuses something like $20 million dollars into carteret county. That's only a few hundred people during a 3 week time period!
What is not needed are unattended gill nets that have unacceptable numbers of bycatch - not just red drum but birds, turtles and other sea life.
How about getting rid of the fish houses? Going to CO-OPs only and actually paying the fishermen a respectable wage. The guys on the water work way too hard to be raped by their "colleagues." Everyone knows it's the fish houses that make the actual money.
Speckled trout are only caught in gill nets and are deliberately targeted by strike netters when the over-winter in the shallow and very narrow creeks.
This bill would enable, for the most part, for recreational fishermen and commercial fishing to look after their own best interests. Every one benefits. "
glen montgomery wrote on Apr 9, 2009 9:42 AM:
" I guess it was only a dream several years back when an effort was made to ban imost nshore shrimp trawling in NC. We are all aware of the intense hatre for gill nets. No there has not been any attempt to ban commercial fishermen just an effort to ban their gear or the species they fish for. By the way, channel nets, pound nets, skimmers trawls, gigging, crabbing, and scallopping for 15 bushels per week will cause one to starve to death during the off season. One has to fish when the critters are available and weather allows. Sorry, but fish dealers are very necessary in order for us to sell our product and I already have to drive 15 miles each way just to find one. "
Clammerhead wrote on Apr 9, 2009 6:36 PM:
" What, no argument with what I said? I wonder why.
Clammerhead "
Elmo Blatch wrote on Apr 10, 2009 8:05 AM:
" So...you want an argument?Well......um...let's see...uh..
NOPE, can't get one from me. "
Boots Beasley wrote on Apr 10, 2009 9:12 AM:
" I think the editor must have been smoking left handed, what a total load of BS. We must protect the resource, not let in keep being raped, by a few greedy people. "
Black-Market Watcher wrote on Apr 10, 2009 9:33 AM:
" All the Screaming and Crying from the Commercial Fishermen about these 2 fish begs a bigger and much more serious question! Could it be that there are a lot of "CASH" transactions in the fish houses that do not get documented?
Could there be a lot of night-time transactions that the DMF enforcement is oblivious to? Could the mis-labling of fish boxes be out of control here in NC as NOAA says it is in all the other 22 coastal states? NOAA says that an criminal fish house can make as much money as a coacain dealer. WOW!
Certainly that couldn't possibly be the case here where Scripture is quoted by our honest commercial fishermen?
I think that some folks i know personally with the I R S would love to look into these cash transactions just to make sure everything is Kosher in the Fish House! Maybe that is why the anguish over this subject seems so intense?
If you are an honest, hard working commercial fisherman, and you have abided by all the rules, then you have nothing to fear do you? But if you buy and sell fish in the cover of darkness, deal in cash and have no record of it, then by all means, please continue to Scream and Holler! You make an easy target for the I R S ! "
Greg Hefner wrote on Apr 10, 2009 9:42 AM:
" Let me start of by saying, yes I am white, I do own a small boat, but I am definately not by any means rich. Also I love this statement; “Oh, and CCA fails to mention that the discard mortality rate, according to the N.C. Division of Marine Fisheries, are that more fish killed by hook and line than by any nets". Last fall I wish I had a camera when we came upon a few hundred Red Drum washed up on the shore near Evereet Creek in Sneads Ferry, I am sure that was from hook and line fishermen, not all the nets that line the banks of the New River, RIDICULOUS! People, we need this Bill to pass!! "
Greg Hefner wrote on Apr 10, 2009 9:56 AM:
" Let me start off by saying, yes I am white, I do own a small boat, but I am definately not, by any means rich. Also I love this statement; “Oh, and CCA fails to mention that the discard mortality rate, according to the N.C. Division of Marine Fisheries, are that more fish killed by hook and line than by any nets". Last fall I wish I had a camera when we came upon a few hundred Red Drum washed up on the shore near Evereet Creek in Sneads Ferry, I am sure that was from hook and line fishermen, not all the nets that line the banks of the New River, RIDICULOUS! People, we need this Bill to pass!! The writer of this article needs to do his homework, talk to both sides, not a lobbiest for commercial fishermen. I am not against the commercial fishermen, but I am against slaughtering our natural resources, and then most of the catch being sold out of state. "
duck man wrote on Apr 10, 2009 10:26 AM:
" The CFRG put this together aand the CCA as usual is taking credit for something they origionally did not supoort until Ty Conti threathened them with no coverage in their magazine. All the incompetant CCA wants is for anglers to send them a check
CCA is not a sportfishermen organization
Read their mission statement
CCA has hijacked the CFRG initiative
Scoundrels that they are "
Jerry Benson wrote on Apr 10, 2009 10:38 AM:
" If ever there was a more irresponsible, racist, fallacious piece of garbage in a newspaper, I don't think that I have seen it. Even as an op-ed piece, it fails every standard of journalism by presenting total falsehoods and worse ... introducing race and class warfare. Absolutely shameful. The Coastal Conservation Association is concerned with one thing ... healthy sustainable fisheries for this and future generations. History is replete with the disasters created by overharvesting. "
Tim Hergenrader wrote on Apr 10, 2009 12:17 PM:
" Tis a good thing this story is labeled "commentary" because it sure isn't factual nor true.
I am white, I own a 16' boat, but I certainly am not rich. I am retired and enjoy fishing for the two species in question. If that makes me an elitist, I guess I'll plead guilty to that.
Protein - since when have North Carolinians ever been concerned about their diets. Take a look around. Furthermore, these fish can be commercially raised, which opens a totally new market for entrepreneurs. Any restaurant owner will get his fish from the cheapest source they can so it doesn't matter if it comes from our waters or a pond somewhere.
The resource is there to be shared by all our citizens, not just a bunch of netters who don't have long term concerns about the resource. They exist for the moment. Take a look around at the commercial fishermen and you can certainly see that.
The NC Division of Marine Fisheries is totally under the wing of the commercial fishermen, always have been, but since they began taking our money, they are bound by law to listen to our side of the story, which up to now, they have had no intention of doing.
You are entitled to your opinion, and you can surely slant that any way you choose, but don't play so fast and loose with the facts.
You do have other readers in Cartaret County other than a few commercial fishermen. "
Kingkiller wrote on Apr 10, 2009 12:43 PM:
" Sorry,I have no empathy for commerical fishermen. They feel entiled,and could care less about the long term stocks of Redfish and Trout. When the last fish is netted,they'll simply line up at the welfare office holding their hands out.... "
RCF wrote on Apr 10, 2009 2:22 PM:
" Don't pass this bill and watch what will happen to the Spotted Seatrout in our waters. They will become fewer and fewer and when something is finally done, the situation will be so damaged - it will take decades for the Spotted Seatrout to recover. It has happen in other states and it will happen here. It is time to curtail the nets. Commercial fishing will survive. All industries have to make changes sooner or latter, why should the commercial fisherman be any different. The valve of the Spotted Seatrout is much more valuable to this state as a gamefish. "
HC wrote on Apr 11, 2009 12:47 AM:
" "Elite group of rich white people that have boats"
Wow, I have a boat, and I'm white too.
But I'm not rich. Can I still be a part of the elite?
Commercial fisherman always seem to get on the short end of the stick.
If we are not careful...commercial fisherman will end up going the way of the American Indian.
And that's a darn shame.
HC "
Clammerhead wrote on Apr 12, 2009 11:30 AM:
" I see a lot of opinion, but still no viable argument.
Clammerhead "
Freddy wrote on Apr 15, 2009 2:36 PM:
" hey kingkiller, until that day comes we will continue to fish. this is our livelihoods and our way of supporting our family and keeping what we got. unless you are blind but there isn't a whole lot of jobs out there for us fishermen to land. unless you can share some insight on to where fishermen can find work, that would be the most intelligent thing you have done here. commercial fishermen have installed gear like turtle excluders, fish excluders, and a whole list of other things to help out with protecting certain sea-life. commercial fishing has been a part of careteret county for decades and it will continue to be part of carteret county even after we are all dead and gone. "
Elmo B. wrote on Apr 16, 2009 9:34 AM:
" I think what kingkiller meant to say was that he has no SYMPATHY for the fishermen. I think we can ALL empathize with them. "
tom wrote on Apr 16, 2009 9:06 PM:
" Are you people telling me that the rec. fisherman catch more fish than the commercial fisherman do? The commercial fisherman landed over 10.716.098 lbs, of summer flounder in 2005 through 2007. And that's not counting the sothern flounder!! that was another 6.236.597 lbs.In just 3 years!! Now you are telling me that the rec. fisherman catch more?? I DONT THINK SO!! Now for me I have a restaurant,My brother has one as well! And I can say this The rec. fisherman is what keeps this county going.Not the commercial fisherman!! I have been here for over 68 years now,And the commercial fisherman has cryed the whole time!! I DONT LIKE WHEREING A SEATBELT,OR DRIVEING 55MP,OR SOME OF THIS CRAP YALL CALL MUSIC NOW ! SO PLEASE QUIT YOUR D@NM CRYING!!!! "
Clammerhead wrote on Apr 17, 2009 10:58 AM:
" To Tom:
Yes Tom, that is exactly what we are saying. Those are some interesting numbers you have got there. please re-read what you wrote. I had to. Your numbers are very confusing.
Without debating the numbers you have used, lets look at the recreational fishing numbers. It is being very conservative to say there are 500,000 recreational fishermen using North Carolina waters. If each fisherman catch 1 flounder each year that is 500,000 fish. With a given average of 5 lbs. per fish, spanning the 2-3 years time period you quoted from equals 5 - 7.5 million pounds. That is at 1 fish each. How many recreational catch 1 fish each per year?
I understand that your and your brother's restaurant make your living off the recreational fishermen , not the commercial fishermen. That makes it easy to support the recreational fishermen and throw the commercial fishermen to the sharks.Your bias is more than evident but that doesn't change the facts.
As for Commercial fishermen crying; Let someone try to take away your right to work and you will cry too. Just like when legislation was passed allowing bars to be considered restaurants. Restaurant owners went up in arms to stop it because it will hurt their business. Then again it is always different when it is you and not them isn't it? You have let your true colors shine Tom.
ok I am done with Tom.
Clammerhead "
Mike Allen wrote on Apr 17, 2009 4:25 PM:
" Thank you Clammerhead for input into this matter. I totally agree with you in all of it. I do agree that we need to protect our environment and those species that reside there. I agree Bill that we need a Commercial fisherman's CO-OP that will shut down the fish houses which completely screw the fishermen on every catch. While there are several other means to make money in the water Bill there are also a couple of posts on here talking about banning all inshore commercial fishing. Does anyone know if the gill nets that are left unattended are commercial or recreational gear? Why can't the fishermen give away undersized bycatch or take it home to eat instead of just letting it die? I am sure that someone without any money would just enjoy the heck out of a 14" red drum. Why don't we ban the recreational commercial fishing license? No one has yet to answer my question about what the fisherman should do while working for minimum wage at a restaurant(tom)or hotel for 6-9 months of the year? Collect welfare kingkiller? Hey I know move away and let the people who can afford it run their own personal playground. Are we going to ban the boats that pollute our waters or the vehicles that tow them here? Will we tear down the homes built near the water that are allowing run off from driveways and fertilized lawns to pollute the inland nurseries? Shouldn't we use all natural baits and fishing line? "
tom wrote on Apr 17, 2009 9:03 PM:
" Well boy's it sounds like they need to take the commercial license away from you and give them to the rec. fisherman if they are that much better fisherman than you are!!And dont give me that B/S about one fish crap!! Do you guys go out and only net 5 fish a night? If so you are doing 5 times the damage you wrote about the rec.fisherman are doing! I guess they are why the bluecrab catch is low now.I did see a little boy abot 8 or 9 off 20'th street playing with a store bought crabnet. So now we need to ban kids from the ocean. I got it lets just give you guys what you want!!! stop all fishing in the state ecept for commercail fisherman,How would that do you? I know it would still be someone else's falt. I have never met a crook or a inmate that has said they where guilty!!THEY SOUND ALOT LIKE COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN!! "
TOM wrote on Apr 17, 2009 9:38 PM:
" Ok clammerhead.. Let me tell you what my numbers are.If you go to the ncdf,(i do hope you know what that means)and you check out the commercial landing,It will break it down for you from there.But i know what you are going to say it ant right!!! And you are right about that.I have been to the boat ramp at taylors creek on meany of night and have a commercial fisherman come in with his catch and ask if i wanted to buy a cooler ful cheap.you know under the table with no paper on how much was landed. Now back to your comment about everyone catching one fish.Well if the commercial fisherman landed well over ten million pounds of summer flounder in those 3 years,that sounds like twice what you say everyone else could catch!So you guys dont hurt it none right!! You would be a GREAT POLITICAN WITH THE BULL YOU TELL!!! YOU ARE THE COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN'S WORSE ENEMY!! OR MAY I SAY YOUR MOUTH IS.. "
Clammerhead wrote on Apr 18, 2009 8:10 PM:
" Tom:
You have told us that you are at least 68 years old. You are spending your time running a restaurant, checking fish nets every night and hang out at the boat ramp night discussing buying coolers full of fish at a discount price. Then you degrade the people you get your fish from ( that is unless you use imported seafood ) and then you support the people you sell the fish to.
You post on this site trying to twist numbers that you don't have or wouldn't understand if you did. You state that commercial fishermen are crooks, yet you have what you say is evidence of these crimes and don't turn the crooks in to the law.
You come here screaming and hollering and whining about us, yet you call us whiners. You Insult commercial fishermen and me in particular saying I am the commercial fishermans worst enemy.
Well, Tom there a lot of commercial fishermen who feel different. If you won't stop trying to take away our jobs will you at least let us pick our own friends?
I suggest that you might want to go to your restaurant, fire up the coffee pot and smell the Folgers. It is not I that is the commercial fisherman's worst enemy, it is you and people like you Tom. You are not helping to solve anything, just hurling insults and making things worse.
In closing; I have made quite simple to find out who I am, why don't you put up the name of your and your brother's restaurant on this post so we will all know who we are dealing with. That is unless even you don't believe what your saying, or just quit embarrassing your self. I am actually starting to get embarrassed for you.
Clammerhead "
Clammerhead wrote on Apr 19, 2009 9:47 AM:
" Tom, sorry about saying you check nets all night. I do not know if you do that or not. I had mistaken you for someone that had posted earlier in another letter. I do apologize for that mistake.
Clammerhead "
Chris wrote on Apr 20, 2009 4:04 PM:
" It looks like this story is going to close out of the most-commented area. That is a shame. It needs to stay in the public eye. I was beginning to enjoy watching people try to prove clammerhead wrong. It was like watching my sons truck running across the floor and hitting the coffee table , then other furniture. It keeps on looking for a new path but cant get far. "
